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Sissney

Sura's Tiger Cannon

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So, I was testing sura stuffs, and as I used Tiger cannon, I noticed it now takes a large portion of SP from the target, before it did 10% SP, now, there isn't an exact number of SP it takes; for an instance, against my Shadow Chaser, 1 Tiger cannon took about 58% of her SP, but, on Dany's Ranger, it took 2 TC's, to take half his SP.

I suggest it goes back to it's normal SP reduction.

On a second note, I was also testing TC's damage, and, the damage output, compared to the HP sura's sacrifice; it kinda sucks in my opinion; I have 1m HP on my sura, and using 1 TC, I dealth 173k, but lost 200k HP

But, on a second try, with 1,4m HP I dealt 210k DMG, but lost 326k HP

As I see it, the HP Sura's have to leash out, to deal decent damage, doesn't really coop with the damage atm; so I suggest either reduce the HP that TC takes, or, Increase the damage of it~

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The SP drain is (if I remember correctly) 2.5% of damage dealt. Official is 10% of dmg dealt. So it appears the fixed 10% of target's SP we had before was a bug from rAthena.

Regarding the balance: Shuras don't really have a way to drain their enemey's SP other than with Tiger Cannon (they can't really resort to auto attacking with DP cards as that would make them too vulnerable) so I think it's not really imbalanced for them to be able to drain high amounts of SP in exchange for 20% of their HP and 10% of their SP (other classes drain your SP with DP/Vellum weapons without losing any HP/SP or without getting close to you). The only problem, as I see it, is Flash Combo as this skill doesnt have any costs and still drains a huge amount of SP. That's why it got a (heavy) CD of 30 seconds (official is 4).

Regarding the damage of Tiger Cannon itself, I agree that it may seem unfair at first. You sacrifice 20% of your hp and you may deal less than that to the enemy (depending on reductions). The problem here lies in the apporach that GRO has taken towards PVP. Tiger Cannon in itself is a one-shotting machine on official servers. Only with full reduction gears can you withstand its force. For GRO, then, it had to be nerfed so that you can't jump around (body relocate around ~) and one-shot people with it (so our approach is to provide lasting PVP). You may argue that it should at least deal more damage than it costs to cast it. The response to to this argument is twofold: first, the damage to yourself is always 20% of your HP while your enemy can reduce the damage by an easy 60% (Aesprika + Thara Frog) making it really hard to balance this skill properly without making it too OP. Second, flash combo doesn't have a cost and deals combo Tiger Cannon damage (which it shouldn't btw) so that increasing Tiger Cannon damage always means increasing Flash Combo damage as well. This in turn will make Flash Combo OP and result in a one-shotting ability every 30 seconds.

Wew, sorry for this wall of text but maybe now you understand what a pain it is to balance this particular skill...Nevertheless, as Everade said, he welcomes your feedback and may adjust certain skills if deemed appropriate.

P.S.: It's admirable that you mentioned the high SP drain although you play Shura yourself. Most players would have simply stated the negative aspects about their own class and avoided mentioning the positive ones :D.

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Thank you for the wall, really, it's better than just a few words meaning little~

Okay so, I'm not looking to 1 shot people, I enjoy a battle where both sides have a fighting chance, the longer, the better, it's way more fun! But, having to give up such a high amount of HP, for a skill that won't do justice to it, just doesn't seem right; yes, it's hard to balance it; but most skills are;

So, as for the SP drain, sure, Sura's can't just wear DP's and hope it works;( but then again, I've never really liked DP that much, because really how many classes can actualy stand in a fight, without SP?) So, as I see it, it was way more balanced before, taking 10% SP with each cannon, for not only it'd take 10 cannons to take all the enemy SP, as that, by then, the player would have some more SP anyway.

About flash combo, well yes, it's over powered as it is, Sura's lose nothing with it, so, I'd like to sugest binding the Flash's Tiger Cannon, to the normal one, thus, consuming HP for it.

As for the damage itself there has to be something worth doing; either make it somehow the same HP we sacrifice = the damage; or lower it's HP cost a bit; I'll let Everade think about the best solution, but, if everything stays as it is, I might consider not playing as Sura anymore, for it'll stop being fun
Alas, this is my opinion~

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I am in now way an expert in Suras, this is purely based on what I've researched and tested (a bit).

Officially, TC has a fixed HP and SP cost of 30% and 15%. Both with equal weight to the damage formula (though SP is a pain to increase):

Normally = (HPCost_Result + SPCost_Result) ÷ 4
As Combo = (HPCost_Result + SPCost_Result) ÷ 2

This limits the Sura's ability to spam this skill, unlike before the patch where you can TC as long as you have the ability to call spirit spheres. 30% sure is a lot compared to RG's 9% (I still think RGs are OP lol) but it is a 5x5 AoE (use it on the character with least reduction and the damage dealt to the AoE would be the same) skill meant for crowd control rather than 1v1 assassinating while body relocating across the map. But doesn't this also make the fight longer and more strategic? Since the Sura must be careful in pacing himself/herself. This would also bring life to other skills like GoH and Guillotine Fist which were overshadowed by TC pre-patch.

I'm not sure about the 30 seconds Flash Combo CD though, isn't it a bit too much? It leaves the Sura vulnerable for a long time which can be crucial in WoE. Fixing the TC damage and CD sounds good.

Just my two cents worth.

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I will do some internal testing with Shura and it will probably end up with either a dmg boost or a decrease to the HP cost. But keep in mind that you are used to using TC without any costs (as it was bugged before the update) so don't expect Tiger Cannon to be as effective as it used to be.

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