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RK Neves

Let's talk Dual Clienting.

Question

Once again, our major pinoy guild belligerants have chosen to disobey rules by Dual Clienting.

This has started since yesterday, when the numbers by ProhibitedHustler (Phillipine Reapers guild for 2.0) had stunning unbelievable numbers, just like a disposal of lokis. Some of my teammates told me they saw two loki sets, or one loki set and one bragi set. They also said, these minstrels and wanderers had devotion.

Remember:

-GatheringRO does not have such large numbers at War of Emperium.

I had requests to make this topic, because the situation is just critical... Yesterday, I had people (from the guild as well.) telling me they were confirming the use of dual, and as long as I remember, dualling in WoE equals BAN. I SAW these people trying to badmouth a GM as well, which in itself is already an offense.

Considering all this, Id like to know if there is a way of prohibinting dual clienting during War of Emperium.

 

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19 hours ago, Abril♥ said:

You know what will end up happening? Dual clients might be blocked entirely (which I wouldn't mind at all), affecting other players as well.

block dual clients during woe hours only pls. /ok

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4 minutes ago, D e M o N said:

If duel clienting is disabled during WoE, what happens to people that play at an internet cafe?

For example, 3 people play from the same cafe, and duel clienting is disabled, how will these players participate during WoE?

I think it means not being able to open two clients on the same computer. I think it's possible, I don't think it actually refers to IP, but it could be, even so, if is, it does raise a problem.

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If duel clienting is disabled during WoE, what happens to people that play at an internet cafe?

For example, 3 people play from the same cafe, and duel clienting is disabled, how will these players participate during WoE?

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8 hours ago, RK Neves said:

I don't think you've added anything new to what you said, nor actually replied the way I was waiting for you to.

Perhaps you misread, or just didn't see, I know about the IPs, it happens alot in the Events too when Abril or Rayleigh detect the same IPs, but if marc could just disable opening two clients on the same computer, like I previously said (Which I am not sure it can be done, because that option I just said would erase the IP problem.)

Even if there was a way to make the gRO client disable duel clienting,

It is very easy to make software run multiple copies of the same.exe file.

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Yea, the ones that abide by the law are at a great disadvantage and it's not being enforced. I brought up this issue maybe a month or two ago but to no avail. Heck, my gameplay is dual-clienting based but I can't even do it anymore so playing is no longer as fun as it used to be

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1 hour ago, RK Neves said:

Considering all this, Id like to know if there is a way of prohibiting dual clienting during War of Emperium.

I've told them innumerable times dual clienting is prohibited.

You know what will end up happening? Dual clients might be blocked entirely (which I wouldn't mind at all), affecting other players as well.

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I don't even know why it has been recently prohibited. Dualing has been around for almost a decade now and back then we had a much bigger population. We might as well restore the use of dualing so that everyone has the option of doing it, making it an even playing field rather than only the bad apples doing it and the law abiding ones put at a disadvantage since it's near impossible to enforce.

If dualing is disabled entirely then how can we trade items between our own chars?

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On 9/24/2016 at 0:37 PM, Hersheys said:

I don't even know why it has been recently prohibited. Dualing has been around for almost a decade now and back then we had a much bigger population. We might as well restore the use of dualing so that everyone has the option of doing it, making it an even playing field rather than only the bad apples doing it and the law abiding ones put at a disadvantage since it's near impossible to enforce.

If dualing is disabled entirely then how can we trade items between our own chars?

I can certainly name a couple of reasons why dualing has been recently prohibited during WoE and probably make a claim to disable it entirely. But with this answer, I'm going to focus on WoE only.

First, the whole idea of WoE is to create a balanced team of offensive/defensive weapons, and supporters to take castles. Imagine a world where, instead of all guilds having a linker standing outside of castles, they actually have one that follows in the back while still supporting them. If you want a bragi/loki set like Neves mentioned in the original post, you can actually do so, by assigning roles to different players instead of dual clienting. Number of players is not an excuse, as I have joined WoE with 2 or 3 different guilds in the past months to check on numbers, and they usually have around 22-28 players online (Woe 2.0) and I can bet for Woe 1 is way more than that (or at least this is what I'm told). The real excuse is the player's greed. No one wants to play linker and such classes because they're afraid they won't receive as much Emperium Fragments as with others (which is my next point). In a perfect scenario, players would switch roles for WoE. For example (and with this I'm presenting a small sample), Hersheys plays Ranger, while Neves plays RG, jsum90 plays ArchBishop, and Abril plays Minstrel (or linker) for Tuesday's WoE. On Wednesday's Woe, we rotate roles, and so on.

Second, WoE rewards. This answers your question of why dualing has been recently prohibited, after it being enabled for a decade. With players opening several accounts during WoE, in one way or another, they farm fragments on different accounts, breaking the game's flow. Remember these are premium equips you can get from this store. Sure, items obtained from it can't be traded, but this is only because dual clienting is still enabled, and with it we can prevent abuse a bit.

Last but not least, I also wanna address your last question. Please don't take me wrong, it is not my intention to sound sarcastic. If you want to trade items between characters, there is the storage. If you can't storage the item then it means it not tradeable in general. For zeny trade, we have a bank system. If you by any chance have a character or class you like on an alternate account, you can now re-make it on your main account, due to the addition of 3 character slots in the past few months. Realistically, there should be no excuse at this point for double clients (or have more than 1 account, regardless of everyone having more than 1).

I can probably continue with reasons why double clients should be disabled, but I promised this answer was going to focus strictly on WoE. Again, if the abuse continues, it might push the team to restrict it entirely.

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Thanks Abril.

Really nothing to add.

The way ragnarok has been designed by gravity and all other mmorpgs at this date is to play with 1 account.

I understand that players are used to own multiple accounts as of gro being a highrate server. Back in the days it offered the possibility to create all different kinds of classes, increase storage size and vend with multiple chars at the same time.

But we've created a new way of how you as the player are being rewarded. Our custom god quests, login reward and all other reward shops are now all bound to having just one account. And we're further building all mechanics on top of that.

 

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10 minutes ago, RK Neves said:

I think it means not being able to open two clients on the same computer. I think it's possible, I don't think it actually refers to IP, but it could be, even so, if is, it does raise a problem.

 

If you play at an internet cafe, it is most likely you will be playing from the same IP Address as everyone connected there

unless you go to a "high-end" shop that has set-up different IP's for each computer.

 

The only way around this is for the gRO client to identify the users MAC Address.

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3 hours ago, D e M o N said:

 

If you play at an internet cafe, it is most likely you will be playing from the same IP Address as everyone connected there

unless you go to a "high-end" shop that has set-up different IP's for each computer.

 

The only way around this is for the gRO client to identify the users MAC Address.

I don't think you've added anything new to what you said, nor actually replied the way I was waiting for you to.

Perhaps you misread, or just didn't see, I know about the IPs, it happens alot in the Events too when Abril or Rayleigh detect the same IPs, but if marc could just disable opening two clients on the same computer, like I previously said (Which I am not sure it can be done, because that option I just said would erase the IP problem.)

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There are ways to find out if someone is dual clienting other than IP and MAC addresses (Which I won't reveal, of course), these being less technical and sometimes even more accurate.

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I don't understand why do we have to even consider banning anything everyone complains about, is it really worth it to listen to the "community" if all they do is moan and groan about every little damn thing? I am all for listening to the community but this is beyond stupid, if dual clienting is so bad then why not just roll with it like everyone else has done in the last 10 years? It's not like you are more effective by dual clienting, fuck, if anything you are waaay less effective by handling 2 chars at once, it's just like having two freaking girlfriends, you will never be able to satisfy both.

I personally just use it to FCP myself or to do 2 things at the same time, I mean it's not like we have an amazing entertaining server. As matter of fact, if dual clienting affects your game play why not just create a rule for reporting it's abuses instead of considering banning the practice all together? I dual client to CHAT with people while I hunt stuff, why in the hell would you ban such a thing? It's been around forever.

 

Why would I want this server to be an exact copy of kRO/iRO? I want to play high rate with custom stuff, come on people.

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1 hour ago, Abbathor said:

I don't understand why do we have to even consider banning anything everyone complains about, is it really worth it to listen to the "community" if all they do is moan and groan about every little damn thing? I am all for listening to the community but this is beyond stupid, if dual clienting is so bad then why not just roll with it like everyone else has done in the last 10 years? It's not like you are more effective by dual clienting, fuck, if anything you are waaay less effective by handling 2 chars at once, it's just like having two freaking girlfriends, you will never be able to satisfy both.

I personally just use it to FCP myself or to do 2 things at the same time, I mean it's not like we have an amazing entertaining server. As matter of fact, if dual clienting affects your game play why not just create a rule for reporting it's abuses instead of considering banning the practice all together? I dual client to CHAT with people while I hunt stuff, why in the hell would you ban such a thing? It's been around forever.

 

Why would I want this server to be an exact copy of kRO/iRO? I want to play high rate with custom stuff, come on people.

This whole discussion is not about dual clienting in general. It's about dual clienting inside Woe castles, which generates extra rewards for abusers and affects other players.It's not even about having a dual client to fcp yourself (task that your local Genetic guildmate should perform during woe). Typically, the abusers use Mechanics to self-destruct themselves as a last resort (which they hide at corners, near where the battle unfolds), or to do bragi/loki sets to buff the rest of the guild (which could be done by actual players and not someone with two or three clients open).

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8 hours ago, Abbathor said:

I don't understand why do we have to even consider banning anything everyone complains about, is it really worth it to listen to the "community" if all they do is moan and groan about every little damn thing? I am all for listening to the community but this is beyond stupid, if dual clienting is so bad then why not just roll with it like everyone else has done in the last 10 years? It's not like you are more effective by dual clienting, fuck, if anything you are waaay less effective by handling 2 chars at once, it's just like having two freaking girlfriends, you will never be able to satisfy both.

I personally just use it to FCP myself or to do 2 things at the same time, I mean it's not like we have an amazing entertaining server. As matter of fact, if dual clienting affects your game play why not just create a rule for reporting it's abuses instead of considering banning the practice all together? I dual client to CHAT with people while I hunt stuff, why in the hell would you ban such a thing? It's been around forever.

 

Why would I want this server to be an exact copy of kRO/iRO? I want to play high rate with custom stuff, come on people.

Without trying to sound rude, going all hostile and not quoting facts or adding/commenting this is utterly stupid.

The community, in this case ME, complains about what I do not like, and not just what I don't like. I have other people's opinion and acceptance while I make these topics.

We, my guild and a few more, are trying not to trespass the law, and we're doing our best to expose these cheaters.

Do you know why!? Because if in a community you just ignore the rotten, one day it will be on you, and let me tell you, you won't like it. I did this topic because I am pretty much one of the only active people from both server and guild who actually come to the forums and check things out! Do you know why!? Because most people in care do not care about what's coming, about what's changing. Hell, some of them never even VISITED the goddamn Forums.

There's a great urge on this because there's the ones who want others to follow the rules the same way THEY do. Some of them are even defying the GMs. I really don't like other things in the server, like the Sorcerer problem I've tried making people put their attention on Crystallization and Vaccuum around 3937172367174K times.

And there's people who ARE having double rewards and double Emperium Fragment amounts by dualling.

We can't just report someone like that, by the time the report reaches the GMs, the person would already have logged off hours ago.

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Quote

not quoting facts

Quote

I can probably continue with reasons why double clients should be disabled, but I promised this answer was going to focus strictly on WoE. Again, if the abuse continues, it might push the team to restrict it entirely.

This comment is the sole reason I posted a reply so no, I am not posting out of stupidity or ignorance, for years this server has had an issue with minorities complaining about people not using the game the way it was intended and demanding that something be done about it, the first change I remember was the healing items restriction during woe, minorities (myself included) complained about yggdrasilberry usage during WoE, which is story I don't want to get into, but it was changed and it brought a fresh nice new vibe to the server, priests with healing became the norm in every woe after that.

But this dual clienting stuff is not the issue here, Abril mentioned that you need to choose a proper party to play the game the way it was supposed to be played, but sadly this isn't the case with most games and the other sad truth is that there isn't enough players during woe (I am only speculating here) and those 20-28 players online during WoE 2.0 are just inflated numbers thanks to dual clients because I assure you, if there was enough players to play different roles a proper guild would not resort to using dual clients to cheat, people will take advantage of every little thing if they can, and since there is already a system in place (account bound stuff) I see no reason why it should bother the flow of the game.

So the problems we see are:

Emperium Fragment Farming: Already taken care of thanks to the account bound items, hell make the fragments Character bounded as well.

Exploding Mechanic: Can't you just block this skill during WoE? A 1 hit KO skill isn't fun in the first place, specially for WoE.

Dual Minstrel/Wanderer: Not sure about this one but something can be worked out no?

Not sure what other issues does the dualing bring but I am sure they can be worked out in a proper way, players will ALWAYS find ways to cheat the game, all you gotta do is be ahead of them, I am talking to you GMs.

 

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For the Sake of gRO, I think it would be fine if you are able to use 2 or more accounts during woe time,

just -NOT- inside a WoE castle. Just like in BG, only 1 account at a time. That would be fair enough.

I think everyone can agree on this so that we can close this discussion and everyone wins.

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