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Question about Sets (Emp vs BG)

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DISCLAIMER: If you don't want to read all this, jump to the part that says TL;DR :D

Is there any particular reason why the BG sets are far superior compared to the Emp Set? I don't own any atm, so my opinion comes from an outside perspective of concern and curiosity. I find it weird that a rarer set, which can be more difficult to get, pales in comparison with a set that's fairly easy to obtain.

To obtain Emp Set: 

  • Complete set (just armor, garment and boots) would take 1,600 fragments.
  • People on average get 14-40 fragments per woe, some good dps and healers get 40-60, per maximum of 4 times a week. (Let's assume 50 frags for best case, and 14 frags for worst case)
  • In best case: 1,600 fragments, if you get 50 frags per WoE, will take 32 WoE's or 8 weeks, which is ~2 months to get the complete WoE set.
  • In worst case: 1,600 fragments, if you get 14 frags per WoE, will take ~114 WoE's, or ~29 weeks, which is ~8 months to get the complete WoE set.

To obtain BG Set (Warmaster / Executioner / Battlelord):

  • Complete set would take 10,500 badges.
  • People on average get 300-400 badges a day (w/ 5 wins), and at best 600 badges a day (600 limit), 700 if we included the +100 from 5 wins with the limit. (We'll assume 600 badges for best, and 300 for worst)
  • In best case: 10,500 badges, if you get 600 badges a day, will take 18 days, which is more than two weeks but less than a month, to get the whole set.
  • In worst case: 10,500 badges, if you get 300 badges a day, will take 35 days, which is less than 2 months, to get the whole set.

 

TL;DR I'm just curious how these decisions were made by the GM team, or if anyone can rationalize why this seems crazily weird (to me, specially). Normally, it follows that a set that's harder to get would provide more benefits (or more options lol), but most people will tell you that the current BG sets mentioned above, are better than the Emp Set. I want to know the opinion of the more experienced players regarding this topic. What are the pro's and cons of each? Thanks a lot!

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First of all, the BG sets don't provide 40% skill damage at +10. The description says according to refine level but this doesn't mean equal to refine level. The formula is actually refine level divided by 3 meaning you get an additional 10% damage to your skill if your whole set is +9/10. So it's 20% not 40% which would be way too much. 

Second, as Lancelot already mentioned, the BG sets are kind of offensive sets with mediocre defensive stats and good offensive stats. Moreover, they provide a useful stat that helps certain playstyles. 

The emperium set has a good mix of defensive and offensive stats and is arguably the better overall choice since it boost survivability by a lot while not neglecting DMG.

Lastly, the only thing that was nerfed concerning the EMP set were the shoes. They initially gave +1 stats but it was removed due to heavy complaints (mostly because of arguments involving Sleipnir). 

The other thing that was changed were the accessories but they don't count as they are not part of the set.

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We were very well aware that BG Badges can technically be farmed 24/7. That is why we implemented a unique Daily Limit. However, please try to understand that we neither wanted to keep the limit too low (to maintain a highly daily BG activity) nor set the prices for the sets too high (and thus cripple motivation to farm them). Moreover, Battleground is very much subject to many random factors (some modes give less badges, you actually have to win to get more badges and reach the limit within your personal time frame, sometimes you won't find enough players etc.) while WoE is basically fixed to certain times and rewards fragments on a very different (less random) basis ( "do X dmg, get X fragments", "heal amount X, get X fragments"...etc.).

As you can see, the two PVP modes differ very much and so do their corresponding rewards. It is only fair that the EMP set takes a little longer to get as it is more versatile. However, we are open for suggestions. Personally, I think the garment's +9 effect could do with a little boost. I am also not happy with the fact that the +9 effect of the shoes is the same as the effect of the 1H Emp. Wand.

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One should also point out that 3 out of 4 WoE's are during the weekday and most people work during the weekday.

Which leaves only Saturday for someone to earn WoE Fragments.

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Yea I can even only do 3 per week now. And the other 2, not even at a full 2 hours.

I have a feeling that a question like this would lead to a lower daily badge limit for BG /heh

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6 hours ago, D e M o N said:

One should also point out that 3 out of 4 WoE's are during the weekday and most people work during the weekday.

Which leaves only Saturday for someone to earn WoE Fragments.

Which in case is the same with farming badges, some people only have saturday and sunday to farm badges too. :)

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1 hour ago, leaphar said:

Which in case is the same with farming badges, some people only have saturday and sunday to farm badges too. :)

Except even during the weekdays, people can find time to do BG (even in between work, right?) because you don't have to sit a full 2 hours (can do BG now, then later and later more before reset) in front of your PC to maximize the amount of badges you can get. Just by getting 5 wins you can get enough badges to get your whole set.

  • Assume 30 badges per win.
  • 5 wins = 30*5, 150
  • 150 + 5 wins bonus = 250
  • 250 badges a day by just playing only for the wins, not even aiming for max.

Surely the person aiming for this would still lose a little, thus earning him some more amounts of frags to be earning around ~300 badges a day. 

EDIT:

We can agree that regardless of whether it's only for weekends or not, BG set is easier to get than WoE set and for all the options that it provides too.

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The first edition of EMP set was actually great, so I guess there was the need to introduce large emp frags quantities required to get one. It was then nerf and change in order to bring balance to the game. Then BG sets were introduced which is offensive maximizing set while EMP set remains to be a defensive set.

 

*PS: Please bring back the +1 all stat of the Emp Shoes :P

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45 minutes ago, lancelot said:

The first edition of EMP set was actually great, so I guess there was the need to introduce large emp frags quantities required to get one. It was then nerf and change in order to bring balance to the game. Then BG sets were introduced which is offensive maximizing set while EMP set remains to be a defensive set.

 

*PS: Please bring back the +1 all stat of the Emp Shoes :P

My take is in order to cope up with the emp set bring back the last effect? as far as i remember it was nerf due to its overpowering stats. from 10% atk/Matk to 5%atk/matk on armor. and remove the +1 stats of the boots. so maybe if its reverted back to 10% atk 20% racial reduce and 20% range reduce ?  that would suffice on BG set with 40% skill atk(if +10 all items for full potential ), 15% range reduce and 7-9% racial reduce?  The advantage of EMP set is its to all class and bg set is on specific class in order to use its full potential. but BG items are much fast to obtain if you play everday atleast gather 500 badges for day(thats what i do) and to Daily quest for +7-9 cert. But emp set on the other hand is much harder but it pays in the long run since you can enjoy every class you gonna use for it. 

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16 minutes ago, LKshaye said:

My take is in order to cope up with the emp set bring back the last effect? as far as i remember it was nerf due to its overpowering stats. from 10% atk/Matk to 5%atk/matk on armor. and remove the +1 stats of the boots. so maybe if its reverted back to 10% atk 20% racial reduce and 20% range reduce ?  that would suffice on BG set with 40% skill atk(if +10 all items for full potential ), 15% range reduce and 7-9% racial reduce?  The advantage of EMP set is its to all class and bg set is on specific class in order to use its full potential. but BG items are much fast to obtain if you play everday atleast gather 500 badges for day(thats what i do) and to Daily quest for +7-9 cert. But emp set on the other hand is much harder but it pays in the long run since you can enjoy every class you gonna use for it. 

Agree on this that it's harder to farm emp frags than bg badges. Well if the management can allow the old effect be returned or do some quick rebalancing like maybe half of the given %, then it would be welcomed as well :D. If not, maybe the additional status point will be acceptable since emp set is required to be +9 as well to be effective.

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So, the Emp Set is defensive and the BG sets are offensive? But the BG sets give good redux too with good additional dmg to skills that can be considered the 'bread and butter' of many classes. I barely count being able to use a set for all characters that you play as an 'advantage' versus having easy to get BG sets with all these choices. (Cause by the time you have Emp Set, you'd prolly have all the BG sets anyway lol)

Honestly, I'd just choose the bg set over the emp set all day, just put them side by side for any class and watch the emp set be put to shame. (It's not like it's hard to get these items to +10 either, lol).

Isn't that weird?

I know we all have our own self-interest in mind (especially since we all benefit from these buffed skills by these sets), but you have to agree that there is a very valid point with the numbers I've shown on the original post. Who wouldn't want that extra tasty damage and redux compared to a little dmg and some redux? You guys own emp sets, you tell me which you prefer to use (all effects considered for your main classes and all). 

All in ideally less than three weeks, why wait 8 weeks for an Emp set.

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11 minutes ago, Rayleigh said:

First of all, the BG sets don't provide 40% skill damage at +10. The description says according to refine level but this doesn't mean equal to refine level. The formula is actually refine level divided by 3 meaning you get an additional 10% damage to your skill if your whole set is +9/10. So it's 20% not 40% which would be way too much. 

Second, as Lancelot already mentioned, the BG sets are kind of offensive sets with mediocre defensive stats and good offensive stats. Moreover, they provide a useful stat that helps certain playstyles. 

The emperium set has a good mix of defensive and offensive stats and is arguably the better overall choice since it boost survivability by a lot while not neglecting DMG.

Lastly, the only thing that was nerfed concerning the EMP set were the shoes. They initially gave +1 stats but it was removed due to heavy complaints (mostly because of arguments involving Sleipnir). 

The other thing that was changed were the accessories but they don't count as they are not part of the set.

Thank you for clearing it up about how the formula for the further refine actually works.

What do you think about the amount of time it takes to get the complete set? Was that your actual intention, for the set to be able to be completed within less than a month? o:

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well i was just guessing if its 1% per refine on BG set bonus/heh but I think saw Emp set was 10% atk? and was nerf into 5% because of bryn[1] and +1 stats on boots was remove because of sliepnir.  I think BG sets are set to help newbies to gain faster advance gear set usable for pvp and woe. But in the end, both sets are unique and built for specialize strategy and stats.

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3 minutes ago, LKshaye said:

well i was just guessing if its 1% per refine on BG set bonus/heh but I think saw Emp set was 10% atk? and was nerf into 5% because of bryn[1] and +1 stats on boots was remove because of sliepnir.  I think BG sets are set to help newbies to gain faster advance gear set usable for pvp and woe. But in the end, both sets are unique and built for specialize strategy and stats.

Aren't the WoE sets the sets for newbies? I mean just the name of those sets imply something more than just newbie stuff haha. I'm just waiting for Ray's reply, cause full set in less than 3 weeks, and all sets in less than 8 months. Still faster to get than Emp set haha. At least make it a bit more challenging to obtain, warmaster/execution/battlelord.

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7 minutes ago, Tuna said:

Aren't the WoE sets the sets for newbies? I mean just the name of those sets imply something more than just newbie stuff haha. I'm just waiting for Ray's reply, cause full set in less than 3 weeks, and all sets in less than 8 months. Still faster to get than Emp set haha. At least make it a bit more challenging to obtain, warmaster/execution/battlelord.

I was just saying coz it is faster to obtain i mean, in 3 weeks you could get the whole set. hahaha. thats my take on that. and yes EMP set is for all classes and not a bit far off to new bg set in terms of damage. 

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