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Add SP penalty for GRB card?

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GRB card allows offensive magic spells to penetrate GTB card. As everyone knows, GTB card comes with a SP penalty (Uses x2 SP for all skills).

Since the magic class has absurd amounts of SP (Some have 55-65k SP), maybe GRB card should also come with a SP penalty?

 

Something like Reduce max SP by 10% and increase SP cost of skills by 3 times.

 

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

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Unneeded. GTB is pretty much useless against a GRB user. GTB and GRB have become obsolete. If you don't agree you clearly do not WoE, where (As far as I remember, it's been some time.) people used to pretty much build a warlock filled with Neutral/wind damage for that ridiculous Soul Expansion spam. -1.

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How about rather than nullifying the magic damage while using gtb,
why dont we remove the nullifying effect of it and replace it for magic damage reduce?
But dont worry, grb wont get trash. If you equip GRB, the dmg will be normal. The reduce effect of gtb will no more longer work if you wear grb, because as we all know, you cant hit magic spells/skills if your enemies wear GTB while the user has no grb.
I think this is a good idea. So that, players with no GRB, specially newbies can fight oldies"who has gtb".
And i hope this thing is possible. Lol 

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On 7/15/2017 at 1:22 AM, RK Neves said:

Unneeded. GTB is pretty much useless against a GRB user. GTB and GRB have become obsolete. If you don't agree you clearly do not WoE, where (As far as I remember, it's been some time.) people used to pretty much build a warlock filled with Neutral/wind damage for that ridiculous Soul Expansion spam. -1.

How is GTB/GRB obsolete? About 90% of the players who participate in WoE wear or carry GTB, which forces the magic class to wear GRB.

Could you explain how a neutral/wind build Warlock leads to Soul expansion spamming?

Also, the magic class is not limited to a Warlock spamming Soul Expansion.

You also have Sorcerer's, Arch Bishops, Oboro/Kagerou, Magic type Shadow chasers, etc...

Regardless of GTB/GRB being obsolete, there should still be some kind of penalty for using the card.

 

On 7/15/2017 at 3:55 AM, Liamdrake said:

How about rather than nullifying the magic damage while using gtb,
why dont we remove the nullifying effect of it and replace it for magic damage reduce?
But dont worry, grb wont get trash. If you equip GRB, the dmg will be normal. The reduce effect of gtb will no more longer work if you wear grb, because as we all know, you cant hit magic spells/skills if your enemies wear GTB while the user has no grb.
I think this is a good idea. So that, players with no GRB, specially newbies can fight oldies"who has gtb".
And i hope this thing is possible. Lol 

There is very little chance that GM's will modify official card effects.

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" Could you explain how a neutral/wind build Warlock leads to Soul expansion spamming?"

Are you actually serious? Im dazzled, are you really?

Soul Expansion IS Neutral Property. Meaning that pretty much 99,9% of the whole server is doing the exact same thing for months now, which is getting Gioia and some other ridiculous card that I can't remember now, I believe that it is for the armor, meaning that they try to one shot you with only ONE Skill.

Now, let's review what we know about this. Soul Expansion is mainly a one target skill, but can hit two people. What is the best cheap defense against a single target skill? Maya.

This topic doesn't make sense to me. GRB has a 75% chance to penetrate, which by itself is SUPER HIGH. Instead of giving that type of penalty to GRB users I would suggest reducing the chance to roughly 50~55 MAX 60%. The chance of hitting is ridiculously high.

Also, it's really doubtful that anyone would risk going full Adoramus. Not only have you gotten Angeling, but also Piety during WoE hours, and the funniest thing is, you don't seriously WoE. We're not gonna get on that, as we're straying, but you mainly troll. Of course, that has nothing to do with the topic and you have the RIGHT to post your suggestions, and they SHOULD and WILL be heard.

Also from a point of self-given ignorance, magic type shadow chasers? How? As far as I know they would only get two magical skills, one from 2nd, and the other from 3rd, and even so, from what I know, the only skill worth getting from 2nd is storm gust.

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1 hour ago, RK Neves said:

" Could you explain how a neutral/wind build Warlock leads to Soul expansion spamming?"

Are you actually serious? Im dazzled, are you really?

Soul Expansion IS Neutral Property. Meaning that pretty much 99,9% of the whole server is doing the exact same thing for months now, which is getting Gioia and some other ridiculous card that I can't remember now, I believe that it is for the armor, meaning that they try to one shot you with only ONE Skill.

Now, let's review what we know about this. Soul Expansion is mainly a one target skill, but can hit two people. What is the best cheap defense against a single target skill? Maya.

This topic doesn't make sense to me. GRB has a 75% chance to penetrate, which by itself is SUPER HIGH. Instead of giving that type of penalty to GRB users I would suggest reducing the chance to roughly 50~55 MAX 60%. The chance of hitting is ridiculously high.

Also, it's really doubtful that anyone would risk going full Adoramus. Not only have you gotten Angeling, but also Piety during WoE hours, and the funniest thing is, you don't seriously WoE. We're not gonna get on that, as we're straying, but you mainly troll. Of course, that has nothing to do with the topic and you have the RIGHT to post your suggestions, and they SHOULD and WILL be heard.

Also from a point of self-given ignorance, magic type shadow chasers? How? As far as I know they would only get two magical skills, one from 2nd, and the other from 3rd, and even so, from what I know, the only skill worth getting from 2nd is storm gust.

Soul Expansion is Ghost property according to the following:

https://www.gatheringro.ch/wiki/Warlock#Soul_Expansion

http://irowiki.org/wiki/Soul_Expansion

Gioia Card increases Ghost/Wind magic damage.

The armor card you are thinking about is Naght Sieger Card, which increases ghost property magic damage..

A player wearing Angeling card, can be frozen/stone cursed (and stripped) thus allowing Adoramous to hit. You should also consider the fact that during woe, AB's stand behind the front line and are throwing out Adoramous' as supplemental offense.

I've seen a Magic type Shadow Chaser during WoE, and I must say they are quite effective.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We have gone severely off topic now, what I am proposing here is that a penalty be added for using GRB card.

I'm not talking about WoE/PvP/BG. Just the fact that there is no penalty as of right now for using GRB.

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28 minutes ago, RK Neves said:

" Could you explain how a neutral/wind build Warlock leads to Soul expansion spamming?"

Are you actually serious? Im dazzled, are you really?

Soul Expansion IS Neutral Property. Meaning that pretty much 99,9% of the whole server is doing the exact same thing for months now, which is getting Gioia and some other ridiculous card that I can't remember now, I believe that it is for the armor, meaning that they try to one shot you with only ONE Skill.

Now, let's review what we know about this. Soul Expansion is mainly a one target skill, but can hit two people. What is the best cheap defense against a single target skill? Maya.

Also from a point of self-given ignorance, magic type shadow chasers? How? As far as I know they would only get two magical skills, one from 2nd, and the other from 3rd, and even so, from what I know, the only skill worth getting from 2nd is storm gust.

Hi Neves, I'm not against you on this since I don't see why there is a need to put a  heavy penalty in GRB (such as -10%sp, maybe we can do with the no regen SP when worn or x2 SP consumption of skills)  as of the moment. As far as I remember, Wiz and Sorc will get nerf next update in terms of items and card damaging effects.

What maybe could help would be knowing the correct property of Soul expansion. The skill inflicts ghost property attack (not neutral) and inflicts full damage to all affected enemies. With the help of the Gioia card, it amplifies both Wind property (YEY Lord Of Vermillion) and Ghost property attacks by 100%.

Shadow Chaser magic type with Soul expansion skill kinda sick tho. Especially if they have fast net, the moment you switch to maya, they can masquerade you. But that's like old already as I don't see any chasers using that skill again.

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43 minutes ago, lancelot said:

Hi Neves, I'm not against you on this since I don't see why there is a need to put a  heavy penalty in GRB (such as -10%sp, maybe we can do with the no regen SP when worn or x2 SP consumption of skills)  as of the moment. As far as I remember, Wiz and Sorc will get nerf next update in terms of items and card damaging effects.

What maybe could help would be knowing the correct property of Soul expansion. The skill inflicts ghost property attack (not neutral) and inflicts full damage to all affected enemies. With the help of the Gioia card, it amplifies both Wind property (YEY Lord Of Vermillion) and Ghost property attacks by 100%.

Shadow Chaser magic type with Soul expansion skill kinda sick tho. Especially if they have fast net, the moment you switch to maya, they can masquerade you. But that's like old already as I don't see any chasers using that skill again.

The reason why I am proposing such a penalty for using GRB card is because the magic class has extremely large amounts of SP.

Aside from having such a large SP pool, some classes who need to use GRB have skills dedicated to restoring or conserving SP.

Some examples:

Sorcerers:

Increase SP Recovery - At level 10, recovers 2% SP while not moving.

Soul Change - Exchange caster's remaining SP amount with the SP amount of a target.

Indulge - Trades off 10% of Max HP for restoring SP, where the amount of SP restored is based on the consumed HP.

 

Arch Bishop:

Increase SP Recovery - At level 10, recovers 2% SP while not moving.

Magnificat - increases SP regeneration by 100%.

Meditio - At level 10, increases SP regeneration by 30%, increases Max SP by 10%.

Spiritual Thrift - At level 5, Reduces SP cost of all skills by 20%.

Epiclesis - Restores 4% SP every few seconds.

Ancilla (item- Restores 15% of max SP, limited to 3 pieces at a time for a total of 45% SP restoration.

 

Warlock:

Increase SP Recovery - At level 10, recovers 2% SP while not moving.

Soul Drain - At level 10, increases max SP by 20%, absorbs 245% SP from monster upon their death. 

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I made a mistake, but still a valid mistake.

Imagine you want to protect yourself from Soul Expansion. How would you do it? GR is suicide, since Ghost amplifies damage received by Ghost. It's like putting on dynamite to protect yourself from C4.

I don't think that specific penalty is good. SP when not taken off by cards or skills e.g: Bloodlust is fairly easy to get back. Ecilepsis, or Soul Change from Sorcerers.

So in a way, your penalty isn't the one I would support. A % reduction on chance to bypass GTB, now we're talking.

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1 hour ago, RK Neves said:

I made a mistake, but still a valid mistake.

Imagine you want to protect yourself from Soul Expansion. How would you do it? GR is suicide, since Ghost amplifies damage received by Ghost. It's like putting on dynamite to protect yourself from C4.

I don't think that specific penalty is good. SP when not taken off by cards or skills e.g: Bloodlust is fairly easy to get back. Ecilepsis, or Soul Change from Sorcerers.

So in a way, your penalty isn't the one I would support. A % reduction on chance to bypass GTB, now we're talking.

There is no such thing a a "valid mistake".

I don't know why you are so focused on Soul Expansion, it is not the purpose of this thread.

GRB's 75% magic penetration is fair enough.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

If truly wish to express your thoughts on Soul Expansion, here is a thread where you can do just that.

 

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3 hours ago, D e M o N said:

There is no such thing a a "valid mistake".

I don't know why you are so focused on Soul Expansion, it is not the purpose of this thread.

GRB's 75% magic penetration is fair enough.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

If truly wish to express your thoughts on Soul Expansion, here is a thread where you can do just that.

 

You're actually more thick than I imagined, anyway, yes, mistakes are valid, because so is learning.

You didn't even make any sort of statement about what I said.

Do you even think a 10% penalty of SP will change ANYTHING at all? Get this, we're not talking about Sura where HP and SP percentages modify damage.

Even Arch Bishop have ancillas, do you actually think everyone will have a little bow, sword or spear to remove SP? Good scenario, but like I said, on real WoE it doesn't work. You say my mistake is invalid, yet you don't even WoE??

I know I shouldn't be doing this, but you really get to my nerves, you are a TROLL. Repeat. A. TROLL. No one's willing to listen what you have to say because of your toxic behaviour, complaining about a one minute error? Are you serious?

Im not even gonna log on my Warlock to tell you the strongest skill doesn't even need 500 SP to be cast. Even my gearless Warlock has roughly 25k+ SP.

I refered to Soul Expansion because it is the main reason someone would want to get a Gioia Card or a Naght Seiger, and it's pointless to use a GTB when you could use a MAYA to counter that. Of course, we're not talking only Warlock like you said, but compare Warlock x Sorcerer and you'll (hopefully...) get what I mean.

I wouldn't wear a GTB for TWO reasons. First, 75% is really high. I have a warlock, I have seen people and I have used the items myself, out of 10 magic skills, 7 or 8 will affect you. Second, why would I wear a GTB when I know all the magic casters will use GRB? I told you the state of how things are. GTB is bad because you can't get heal or buffs, and they really can help you when you struggle.

If YOU want to equip a GTB and get hit pretty much 80% of the time and die, do it! I will have my Maya ready and my Bishops even closer.

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1 hour ago, RK Neves said:

You're actually more thick than I imagined, anyway, yes, mistakes are valid, because so is learning.

You didn't even make any sort of statement about what I said.

Do you even think a 10% penalty of SP will change ANYTHING at all? Get this, we're not talking about Sura where HP and SP percentages modify damage.

Even Arch Bishop have ancillas, do you actually think everyone will have a little bow, sword or spear to remove SP? Good scenario, but like I said, on real WoE it doesn't work. You say my mistake is invalid, yet you don't even WoE??

I know I shouldn't be doing this, but you really get to my nerves, you are a TROLL. Repeat. A. TROLL. No one's willing to listen what you have to say because of your toxic behaviour, complaining about a one minute error? Are you serious?

Im not even gonna log on my Warlock to tell you the strongest skill doesn't even need 500 SP to be cast. Even my gearless Warlock has roughly 25k+ SP.

I refered to Soul Expansion because it is the main reason someone would want to get a Gioia Card or a Naght Seiger, and it's pointless to use a GTB when you could use a MAYA to counter that. Of course, we're not talking only Warlock like you said, but compare Warlock x Sorcerer and you'll (hopefully...) get what I mean.

I wouldn't wear a GTB for TWO reasons. First, 75% is really high. I have a warlock, I have seen people and I have used the items myself, out of 10 magic skills, 7 or 8 will affect you. Second, why would I wear a GTB when I know all the magic casters will use GRB? I told you the state of how things are. GTB is bad because you can't get heal or buffs, and they really can help you when you struggle.

If YOU want to equip a GTB and get hit pretty much 80% of the time and die, do it! I will have my Maya ready and my Bishops even closer.

The reduction of 10% SP is only an example of a penalty. It can be raised or lowered. It could also be a completely different penalty.

I know we're not talking about a Sura, not sure why you are pointing that out. Sura's don't really have a use for GRB.

This is not about WoE, this is about the GRB card. I do participate in WoE.

I'm not trolling anyone here. This is a legitimate concern and suggestion. If anyone is trolling here, it is you.

WoE being 1 minute off is troublesome because time is extremely crucial to breakers. As you know breaking the Emperium is usually done 1-2 minutes before WoE ends.

A Warlock's strongest skill is Comet, which requires 800 SP to cast. Not sure why your "gearless" Warlock has only 25k+ SP. A "gearless" Warlock usually has 45k+ SP.

Soul Expansion, Gioia/Naght Seiger/Maya card is not the concern here, it is GRB card.

No one is forcing you to wear GTB. If you don't want to wear GTB card, that is up to you.

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1 hour ago, D e M o N said:

The reduction of 10% SP is only an example of a penalty. It can be raised or lowered. It could also be a completely different penalty.

I know we're not talking about a Sura, not sure why you are pointing that out. Sura's don't really have a use for GRB.

This is not about WoE, this is about the GRB card. I do participate in WoE.

I'm not trolling anyone here. This is a legitimate concern and suggestion. If anyone is trolling here, it is you.

WoE being 1 minute off is troublesome because time is extremely crucial to breakers. As you know breaking the Emperium is usually done 1-2 minutes before WoE ends.

A Warlock's strongest skill is Comet, which requires 800 SP to cast. Not sure why your "gearless" Warlock has only 25k+ SP. A "gearless" Warlock usually has 45k+ SP.

Soul Expansion, Gioia/Naght Seiger/Maya card is not the concern here, it is GRB card.

No one is forcing you to wear GTB. If you don't want to wear GTB card, that is up to you.

There is a thing called ANALOGY. It is where you compare two things, with similar points, it is not straying.

Im the one trolling? Jesus could you be less self-aware, if it's an example of a penalty why did you even post it? You're supposed to have your idea pre-planned before making a topic.

Also, since your reading comprehension seems to fail constantly, 25k+. Now, a + means a higher number than the one stated. This symbol > + < is used in math. For example (You really want me to go this stupid, you are forcing me) in math a 7+7 equals 14. Why? Because + adds a number. Got it?

So what you are saying, is that if there's alternatives to a problem, we should just ignore them? Very wise.

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On 7/17/2017 at 0:41 PM, RK Neves said:

There is a thing called ANALOGY. It is where you compare two things, with similar points, it is not straying.

Im the one trolling? Jesus could you be less self-aware, if it's an example of a penalty why did you even post it? You're supposed to have your idea pre-planned before making a topic.

Also, since your reading comprehension seems to fail constantly, 25k+. Now, a + means a higher number than the one stated. This symbol > + < is used in math. For example (You really want me to go this stupid, you are forcing me) in math a 7+7 equals 14. Why? Because + adds a number. Got it?

So what you are saying, is that if there's alternatives to a problem, we should just ignore them? Very wise.

The scope of this thread is about the SP penalty incurred from using GTB versus using GRB which has no SP penalty.

You are just throwing multiple unrelated subjects into your argument. You are mentioning GRB/GTB being obsolete, Warlocks spamming

Soul Expansion with the use of neutral(?!) and wind magic enhancing cards, you not wanting to wear GTB, GRB card have too high of

a penetration rate, you keeping Maya card ready and an Arch bishop close by, WoE, PvP, a Sura's HP/SP percentages affect damage. and so on...

 

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On 7/15/2017 at 6:55 PM, Liamdrake said:

How about rather than nullifying the magic damage while using gtb,
why dont we remove the nullifying effect of it and replace it for magic damage reduce?
But dont worry, grb wont get trash. If you equip GRB, the dmg will be normal. The reduce effect of gtb will no more longer work if you wear grb, because as we all know, you cant hit magic spells/skills if your enemies wear GTB while the user has no grb.
I think this is a good idea. So that, players with no GRB, specially newbies can fight oldies"who has gtb".
And i hope this thing is possible. Lol 

Shadow Chasers will eat you alive.

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3 minutes ago, raphaelluigi said:

Shadow Chasers will eat you alive.

ive seen other server that gtb has the effect of reducing enemies magic damage, but in the same time, it still nullifies dispell/debuff and other abnormal effects.
 

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1 hour ago, Liamdrake said:

ive seen other server that gtb has the effect of reducing enemies magic damage, but in the same time, it still nullifies dispell/debuff and other abnormal effects.
 

That's too much I think, a damage reduction and spell nullification for GTB. For GRB, maybe SP usage per skill can be increase but not both such as sp pool penalty and sp usage penalty per skill. 

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6 hours ago, lancelot said:

That's too much I think, a damage reduction and spell nullification for GTB. For GRB, maybe SP usage per skill can be increase but not both such as sp pool penalty and sp usage penalty per skill. 

Its for the newbies tho.
but lets dont forget that you can balance it. 
like 15-20% magic dmg reduce would do fine.

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14 hours ago, lancelot said:

That's too much I think, a damage reduction and spell nullification for GTB. For GRB, maybe SP usage per skill can be increase but not both such as sp pool penalty and sp usage penalty per skill. 

Reduction of max SP by 10% and increase SP usage by 3 times is a conservative penalty.

Keep in mind the magic class has large amounts of SP (50-55k SP is common).

Aside from that they have skills which are dedicated to restoring or conserving SP.

7 hours ago, Liamdrake said:

Its for the newbies tho.
but lets dont forget that you can balance it. 
like 15-20% magic dmg reduce would do fine.

Please stay on topic. This is thread is about the lack of SP penalty from using a GRB card.

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18 hours ago, D e M o N said:

Reduction of max SP by 10% and increase SP usage by 3 times is a conservative penalty.

Keep in mind the magic class has large amounts of SP (50-55k SP is common).

Aside from that they have skills which are dedicated to restoring or conserving SP.

I see maybe you don't use FBH  after all. I just made a new warlock and got my SP at 35k (at balance items and good stat). Both of my sorc, a support and battle type got 40k and 30k sp respectively. So I stand with my vote that 1 penalty can be charge instead of you taking 2. Everyone is entitled with their opinion anyway so -1 to both penalties. Currently leaning on the increase in SP usage per skill.

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8 minutes ago, lancelot said:

I see maybe you don't use FBH  after all. I just made a new warlock and got my SP at 35k (at balance items and good stat). Both of my sorc, a support and battle type got 40k and 30k sp respectively. So I stand with my vote that 1 penalty can be charge instead of you taking 2. Everyone is entitled with their opinion anyway so -1 to both penalties. Currently leaning on the increase in SP usage per skill.

Even with FBH penalty, your warlock still has more then enough SP.

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This suggestion seems perfectly justified. Cards that are extremely powerful should always have some kind of a drawback (GTB, Tao, Thana) be they custom or not. GRB is a very powerful card indeed (personally, I have always felt that 75% is too high but that's a different story) and as such could do with a drawback. Increasing SP consumption by 100% when worn sounds good to me, for then it will be at least equal to GTB.

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