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sadam

Remove the loyalty requirement for 7th to 9th grade mercenaries

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we appreciate the scripting done to make it easier for people to get 10th grade mercenaries. We truly do specially since you had to do the scripting from scratch! But making it easier to get the level 10 mercenaries didn't have to come with a downside of making it much more difficult to get 7, 8, and 9th grade. How many people even use level 10 mercenaries? 2 people would be stretch already. Meanwhile the rest that do use mercenaries use exactly those 7 to 9th grade.

 

And who uses 9th grade mercenaries the most? Newbies that want to level up.

There's also old players that want to make new chars and use mercenaries to help level up. There's still the level 6 ones that don't have a loyalty requirement but they're nothing compared to the 9th grade Double Strafing Archer mercs or the 8th grade Piercing Spearmen mercs.

 

You can even see how the inconvenience, for 3 grades to be much more difficult to get, far outweighs the convenience gained for 1 grade to be much easier to get:

 

BEFORE

7th Grade     = Available by default

8th Grade     = Available by default

9th Grade     = Available by default

10th Grade   = Extremely difficult to get

 

NOW

7th Grade     = Considerably much more difficult to get

8th Grade     = Considerably much more difficult to get

9th Grade     = Considerably much more difficult to get

10th Grade  =  Much easier to get

 

The 10th grade merc being easier to get now is a blessing indeed, but the 7 to 9th grade ones should have been left as is. The unofficial way of buying mercenaries up to 9th grade was the norm in our server for years and it's very inconvenient to get them now, all in the name of getting the 10th grade one, that barely anyone uses, to be easier to get. We don't think it's a good trade-off

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It's how the system officialy works.
But it's customized in much less loyalty requirements.

7th - 9th grade do NOT cost you loyalty.
But you must HAVE enough loyalty to get them.

That means you start off with lower grade mercenaries when you start leveling up, until you reach enough loyalty to reach the next grade.

It makes sense and doesn't require a lot of effort.
Once you've reached enough loyalty, you can buy as many 9th grade mercenaries as you want.

So where exactly is your problem?

Only 10th grade mercenaries cost you actual loyalty, so as long as you don't waste your entire loyalty pool, you can always buy as an infinite amount of 9th graders.

I don't know if there's a maximum cap in the loyalty pool though.

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It's an official feature, even if I'm agree about to remove it, it's a thing that was missing here related to Mercenaries. I've talk with friends who plays in other servers and they commented why mercenary thingy was completly easy to get here, and that was YEARS ago. If we are pretty much attached to official features, and get used to it, I think we can get used with something that actually have time ago running in other servers.

 

I do use Mercenaries, and this actually hits me hard, but I was aware about this time ago, and I was expecting such thing late or soon in here. As you say, Theo, there are other things more important to complain at, but not because it says "is official" its an authoritary thing, it was just a must in that mechanic.

 

Just my opinion. Peace /gawi

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26 minutes ago, Hersheys said:

 

I think this isn't working as intended. I just went to dic_dun02 where the monsters are level 136 and 139, which fit the bill for monsters half the level of the level 250 player. Had a grade 6 mercenary with me. Tried it with two chars and killed the mobs with either AoE magic spells or physical attacks and none of it counted towards the mercenary's loyalty at all. Only the ones that the mercenary killed counted: could be done by me damaging the monster enough and let the mercenary kill it when the monster had low HP or when I leave the mercenary to it's own accord and it kills the monster itself /swt3

 

Not criticizing; I'm just sayin' that it's not working /gawi


Thanks for pointing that out, appreciate it. /gawi

Maybe the mercenary needs to do at least one hit for it to count (not the last one).

I haven't tested that nor checked out the source code for that specific part. I only took that information from the iRO wiki.


But i wasted enough of my holidays on this topic for now. 

I have currently no plans to touch mercenaries any further.

 

So it may take some time before i release any changes at all.

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Sigh. Biolabs mentioned again? XD

 

This thread just turned hostile. A surefire way to get a thread locked /shy

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It increases the purpose of lower grade mercenaries.
Other than that it doesn't make much of a difference, because i repeat:
You can buy as many mercenaries as you want as long as you've got enough loyalty, because they don't cost loyalty.


And we're based on Ragnarok Online, that means we always stick to the official way if in any way possible.
The more official, the better, we just want to keep things balanced and enjoyable.

You're seriously overreacting. /sigh

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11 hours ago, Shuichi said:

I've talk with friends who plays in other servers and they commented why mercenary thingy was completly easy to get here, and that was YEARS ago.

 

I do use Mercenaries, and this actually hits me hard,

 

@Shuichi off topic I know but I was super curious since I never used the grade 10 ones, how badass are they like? One of them has my favorite move I heard: zerk Lol /heh

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6 hours ago, Yzobel said:

Before you mark yourself as the best answer in a thread and not read any more posts in it, hear us out.

 

 

  Quote

7th - 9th grade do NOT cost you loyalty.
But you must HAVE enough loyalty to get them.

 

We know. That wasn't our point. We're talking about loyalty requirement, not loyalty currency.

 

 

  Quote

It makes sense and doesn't require a lot of effort.

 

You do realize that it takes 50 KILLS to gain 1 loyalty point right? 50 KILLS that the mercenary has to land the killing blow. If the player and the mercenary both attack a monster and the monster dies from the player's hit, the mercenary gets no loyalty point. Don't believe me? Try it in-game and see. You put the loyalty requirement to be 30 in order to get a 9th grade mercenary. The math: it would take 1,500 (one thousand and five hundred) kills for you to get 30 loyalty points. 1,500 times the mercenary has to land the killing blow. Even if it were changed that the the mercenary will gain loyalty points from the player killing monsters, that's still a whooping 1,500 kills!

 

To top it off there's a bug that if you want to get more than 1 scroll at a time and buy the max 10 scrolls at once, get this: you'll need 300 loyalty points for 9th grade mercenaries. You'll need the mercenary to kill 15,000 high level monsters to get that much loyalty points. And that's just for one type of mercenary. Archer, Spear, and Sword mercenaries all have separate loyalties. Want access to all level 9 mercenaries? You'll need 30 loyalty for each type. That will take 4,500 monsters to kill. Want to buy 10 scrolls of each 9th grade? That will be 45,000 kills needed. All of which the mercenary has to deal the killing blow. What did we need to do in order to have this before this change? Just a small amount of zeny. Do you see how tremendous the effort needed now compared to just a few days ago?

 

Every 30 minutes that the mercenary stays alive will also be 1 loyalty point, so maybe it would take 1,300 kills instead if it took you 2 hours to do that. Also remember that the monster level required for it, to be  a valid loyalty point kill, goes higher, the higher the level of the player reaches. No the mercenary can't just kill a mob of low level monsters. Check the monsters levels at the higher end of this list (http://ratemyserver.net/index.php?page=misc_table_mobexp&op=2&re=1).

 

Doesn't require a lot of effort? Please try it in the game and video it and see how long it takes you, and then show it to the server to prove your point that it doesn't take a lot of effort. Do it with a non-GM character starting from level 1 up to 3rd job 250/120. And then ask yourself, not as a GM, but as an average player. Why would a player go through this? Versus being readily available before? Truly ponder on this. Where's the incentive of going through all this effort? Please do this and prove us all wrong.

 

Okay so let's say you went through all that effort and you now have 30 loyalty points. Wait, you actually wen't above and beyond that effort and got 40 loyalty points. Great! Now you can buy 9th grade mercenaries. You can buy an infinite amount of 9th grade mercenaries. You're already level 250 by the time you killed so many monsters though.

 

And again ask yourself, why would a new player want to go through that? Defeats one of the main purposes (not the only purpose) of mercenaries right? To help level up? You'd be already 250 before you kill 1,300 monsters don't you think? The majority of mercenary users are newbies after all.

 

  Quote

Only 10th grade mercenaries cost you actual loyalty, so as long as you don't waste your entire loyalty pool, you can always buy as an infinite amount of 9th graders.

 

Rarely anyone uses 10th grade if anyone at all. From who we know it's apparently just Ace. Good for him. In order to make getting 10th grade easier, all the other players that use 7th to 9th now have to go through so much effort now when a few days ago all you needed was some zeny and to click the NPC.

 

Of course, no one's forcing us to buy mercenaries but that's not the point at all.

 

The reason why i switched to the *best answer* system is so that i can handle the topics without being forced to close them.
That gives you *the bigmouths* the possibility to continue to frustrate me.
And i actually read your crap, isn't that nice?

 

Yes i do realise that it's times 50.

Yes i do know that if the mercenary dies, you don't recieve any loyalty, but my mercenaries can actualy stay alive if you know how to play.
I also know, that if you start using mercenaries as a beginning players, you won't have a lot of problems getting loyalty because you can easily kill lower level monsters.
Fun fact: You can kill the monster yourself and it still counts.
I also do know that you get an additional point if you simply let the scroll run out, so you don't even have to get into battle to get a free point.

 

I personally think it's easy as ****, but who am i to speak.

 

Why would a new player go through that?
I don't know... maybe they're here to play ragnarok and go for a chit chat in habbo hotel instead.

But since my dedication doesn't seem to be enough, i will lower it to your expectations.
So you guys can happily sit around do nothing.

 

 

I'm not asking for appreciation for what i do, i just can't stand it to be blamed for bullshit all the time when i'm trying to give my best.

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1 hour ago, Everade said:

Fun fact: You can kill the monster yourself and it still counts.

 

I think this isn't working as intended. I just went to dic_dun02 where the monsters are level 136 and 139, which fit the bill for monsters half the level of the level 250 player. Had a grade 6 mercenary with me. Tried it with two chars and killed the mobs with either AoE magic spells or physical attacks and none of it counted towards the mercenary's loyalty at all. Only the ones that the mercenary killed counted: could be done by me damaging the monster enough and let the mercenary kill it when the monster had low HP or when I leave the mercenary to it's own accord and it kills the monster itself /swt3

 

Not criticizing; I'm just sayin' that it's not working /gawi

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43 minutes ago, Everade said:


Thanks for pointing that out, appreciate it. /gawi

Maybe the mercenary needs to do at least one hit for it to count (not the last one).

I haven't tested that nor checked out the source code for that specific part. I only took that information from the iRO wiki.


But i wasted enough of my holidays on this topic for now. 

I have currently no plans to touch mercenaries any further.

 

So it may take some time before i release any changes at all.

 

Ah yea I thought that too but I did it was AoE physical attack, 5 Scrabas mobbed me and the mercenary stabbed one of them a few times. After all 5 of them died from my attack, the mercenary still didn't get it's kill count (just same zero) /swt

 

Hmm but loyalty not being subtracted per mercenary death is still on the table, per Gacha's suggestion at least? @Everade  /ok

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well in my oppinion is, why do you make such an Update like this, its kind of useless -.-!

as long as i play this game, mercenary never become problem unless, you make one like this.

You should more concern about balancing new bio lab cards because its really non sense at all

that "it's official" is just an argument of authority and doesn't actually have a constructive argument behind it. You can literally make that argument for anything that we have that's custom, change it back to official, and then just say "Well it's because it's official". That's not an argument. Is it a good change? A bad change? Maybe something better can be done? Nope, it's official. And end-all argument. It's the exactly the same thing Bible-thumpers would say when asked if why something is considered bad or why we can't dress a certain way, or do this and that.... "Because the Bible says so! End of story". Same thing as saying "Well, it's the law!". Okay, well slavery and racial segregation were once laws. Was it a good thing? An "It's the law!" answer doesn't address that. Again, that overused "It's official" answer is just an argument of authority.

 

Think about it, what advantage does having this official way have versus our unofficial norm for years? << Answer this question please without an "It's official" response (and with all due respect, not like a politician dancing around the question)

 

7th, 8th, and 9th readily available and only 10th has loyalty requirements   VERSUS     7th to 10th having loyalty requirements

 

Just in case if you say, well not everything in the game comes easy! Okay, but what advantage does having 7th to 9th needing loyalty requirements versus back then when it was readily available?

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Before you mark yourself as the best answer in a thread and not read any more posts in it, hear us out.

 

 

  Quote

7th - 9th grade do NOT cost you loyalty.
But you must HAVE enough loyalty to get them.

 

We know. That wasn't our point. We're talking about loyalty requirement, not loyalty currency.

 

 

  Quote

It makes sense and doesn't require a lot of effort.

 

You do realize that it takes 50 KILLS to gain 1 loyalty point right? 50 KILLS that the mercenary has to land the killing blow. If the player and the mercenary both attack a monster and the monster dies from the player's hit, the mercenary gets no loyalty point. Don't believe me? Try it in-game and see. You put the loyalty requirement to be 30 in order to get a 9th grade mercenary. The math: it would take 1,500 (one thousand and five hundred) kills for you to get 30 loyalty points. 1,500 times the mercenary has to land the killing blow. Even if it were changed that the the mercenary will gain loyalty points from the player killing monsters, that's still a whooping 1,500 kills!

 

To top it off there's a bug that if you want to get more than 1 scroll at a time and buy the max 10 scrolls at once, get this: you'll need 300 loyalty points for 9th grade mercenaries. You'll need the mercenary to kill 15,000 high level monsters to get that much loyalty points. And that's just for one type of mercenary. Archer, Spear, and Sword mercenaries all have separate loyalties. Want access to all level 9 mercenaries? You'll need 30 loyalty for each type. That will take 4,500 monsters to kill. Want to buy 10 scrolls of each 9th grade? That will be 45,000 kills needed. All of which the mercenary has to deal the killing blow. What did we need to do in order to have this before this change? Just a small amount of zeny. Do you see how tremendous the effort needed now compared to just a few days ago?

 

Every 30 minutes that the mercenary stays alive will also be 1 loyalty point, so maybe it would take 1,300 kills instead if it took you 2 hours to do that. Also remember that the monster level required for it, to be  a valid loyalty point kill, goes higher, the higher the level of the player reaches. No the mercenary can't just kill a mob of low level monsters. Check the monsters levels at the higher end of this list (http://ratemyserver.net/index.php?page=misc_table_mobexp&op=2&re=1).

 

Doesn't require a lot of effort? Please try it in the game and video it and see how long it takes you, and then show it to the server to prove your point that it doesn't take a lot of effort. Do it with a non-GM character starting from level 1 up to 3rd job 250/120. And then ask yourself, not as a GM, but as an average player. Why would a player go through this? Versus being readily available before? Truly ponder on this. Where's the incentive of going through all this effort? Please do this and prove us all wrong.

 

Okay so let's say you went through all that effort and you now have 30 loyalty points. Wait, you actually wen't above and beyond that effort and got 40 loyalty points. Great! Now you can buy 9th grade mercenaries. You can buy an infinite amount of 9th grade mercenaries. You're already level 250 by the time you killed so many monsters though.

 

And again ask yourself, why would a new player want to go through that? Defeats one of the main purposes (not the only purpose) of mercenaries right? To help level up? You'd be already 250 before you kill 1,300 monsters don't you think? The majority of mercenary users are newbies after all.

 

  Quote

Only 10th grade mercenaries cost you actual loyalty, so as long as you don't waste your entire loyalty pool, you can always buy as an infinite amount of 9th graders.

 

Rarely anyone uses 10th grade if anyone at all. From who we know it's apparently just Ace. Good for him. In order to make getting 10th grade easier, all the other players that use 7th to 9th now have to go through so much effort now when a few days ago all you needed was some zeny and to click the NPC.

 

Of course, no one's forcing us to buy mercenaries but that's not the point at all.

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